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 Post subject: Recoil Spring Durability
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Hi all,

Anyone have an idea how long the recoil springs should last before needing to be changed out? My Vepr started out very reliable, first 600 rounds or so were flawless with every ammo I tried (1200 FPS and up). I started shooting it in 3 Gun/multigun and have been getting a stovepipe here or there, usually one per match. Yesterday I got two. I have also noticed that the bolt began to slow down when chambering a new round. I switched the guide rod setup (not the JTE one but similar), put a full power CSS spring in the rear and switched over the factory spring in the front, this made no change. This morning I installed a second CSS full power spring in the front and it seems to have worked to get the bolt to go home with authority again (no telling on the stovepipe until I shoot it more).

I can’t be exactly sure how many rounds through it but I’d guess between 1,000 and 1,200, I have been using Winchester AAs, so quality hulls. Seems a little premature for the spring to wear out. Next question is do I change both springs every time? Rear is a PITA to get out but doable. Also, are both springs the same? I thought I read a previous post that said they were but could not find it. Lastly, are the CSS full power springs the best bet or is there a better one out there?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:33 pm 
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What other mods have you done to your V-12? Did the stove pipes start after installing aftermarket parts? Have you cleaned the gas puc, gas block and gas ports?

- Some competitors have mentioned swapping in fresh springs before each match (r&r targets).

- I would change both springs each time you feel the need to change springs.

- Both springs are the same.

- The only better (than CSS full power) springs you can get would be Molot Factory springs. I have heard of people running 2 1911 recoil springs.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:51 am 
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vepr wrote:
What other mods have you done to your V-12? Did the stove pipes start after installing aftermarket parts? Have you cleaned the gas puc, gas block and gas ports?

- Some competitors have mentioned swapping in fresh springs before each match (r&r targets).

- I would change both springs each time you feel the need to change springs.

- Both springs are the same.

- The only better (than CSS full power) springs you can get would be Molot Factory springs. I have heard of people running 2 1911 recoil springs.


Mods outside of external things (grip, stock, hand guard, etc.) are the ALG-UL trigger, SGM mod choke, and GK03++ brake. Troubles started after but not right after those (RR Targets is the maker of the guiderod I swapped in, but that was after the problems started). I am using Dissident tuned SGM 12 round mags and one SGM mag I tuned myself (can’t trace to a specific mag).

It was freshly cleaned (and yes, I do clean the puc and ports) before the last two times it stovepiped, this failure could happen on the first, last, or one of the middle stages of a match (usually between 75-110 round matches- not high round count) or not at all (had two matches in a row with no stovepipes, but one of those, had one round slow to chamber during fire (the only time that happened) which caused a FTE on a flying clay. When I first got it, I burned up a 100-150 rounds of 1175 FPS AAs with no problems in addition to a couple bulk pack Federal and Winchester 1200 FPS from Wallyworld and an assortment of other types of ammo with zero malfunctions, so the gas system was proven to work. It remained reliable until my second match, after it had seen at least 600 rounds.

The sluggish chambering initially was only after 100-150 rounds after a cleaning and only when manually cycling the bolt or releasing the bolt catch, I thought it was getting dirty or over lubed, so I cleaned it after each use and was careful to not over lubricate but it steadily got worse to the point where it would do it when just cleaned, as I said, this only caused one hiccup during firing and it was not yesterday. The match from yesterday was 115ish rounds, I did not clean it, just swapped the front spring and was able to get the rounds to chamber without being sluggish.

I will order some more CSS springs for backup, I can’t see swapping them after every match (I’m just a local match guy) and keep a spare setup for backup. I’m hoping my stovepipes also go away with this fix, time will tell, I’m planning to send it off to Dissident for tuning and a pic rail install after this season.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Pull the forward recoil spring and lay it on a flat surface. If it looks really wavy, replace it. Having said that, factory springs last a very very long time, thousands of rounds assuming nothing stupid has been done to the weapon.

R&R is likely swapping in new springs all of the time because they are not using factory weight springs.

Factory springs are best. All of my videos are weapons with factory springs. All of them. I doubt the problem is your springs. Look at that replacement guide rod and see if it is bent upward at the front. If it is, put the factory one back in assuming it is not bent. If all of this checks out as good, you weapon likely has at least one defect. I know, it ran before, but it still likely has a defect that had it just barely over the ragged edge of running. Now that things are looser, it will not run 100%. All of this is said assuming you are supporting the weapon very firmly while shooting the weak loads. Pull it in tight and see how it runs. There may be some variation of how you are holding the weapon when in a hurry in these matches that is causing the failures. How you hold it matters.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Yes Im sure r&r shoots the lowest power/recoil rounds they can possibly run reliably and at very high volumes, and that is likely why they swap springs before each match. Its kind of like racing where they tear down a engine after every pass/match, they arent built for longevity but for short bursts of performance.

Absolutely the factory springs are going to be THE best, if for some reason you wore them out..CSS full power springs would be your next best bet (for reliability using the types of ammunition the V-12 was designed and intended for). I personally would change both springs at the same time, if I were to change the springs.

Something in your system is robbing the action of energy, thats why I was asking about aftermarket parts and cleaning.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:34 am 
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If you an afford to wear factory springs out, you can afford new springs or a new gun, for that matter. Unless you have put thousands of rounds on factory springs, assuming nothing stupid (beyond what is detailed below) has been done to the weapon, be confident that it isn't an issue yet.

I have well over 10k rounds on my personal S12 SBS and it has even seen periods of intentional heavy abuse. I was trying to break a carrier repair under fire with 3" loads and the gas setting on wide open. The repair never broke, but I fubar'd my reciprocating dust cover and bent the receiver so bad that it would not run reliably (went to about 50% failures, IIRC). I am glad the receiver bent because I would have kept going until something else broke and my body could not take much more of it (5.8 lb SBS with a AK100 triangle stock). I was happy to know that the carrier repair and method of execution would likely outlast the receiver should I want to offer it to others in the future. I have no feed issues and until there are issues I will keep rocking those same springs. FWIW, the factory guide rod never bent. The Russians do make great springs. If anyone was wondering why I am such a strong supporter of keeping the factory springs and guide rod, this is the main component of that stance, durability.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:50 pm 
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The spring seemed to make it better at home, but on the range, there wasn’t a change. I did figure out the problem and it was my fault, I overtightened the aftermarket flared mag well set screws, which apparently caused the mag to seat at an angle slightly off from where it should be, making the shells enter the chamber at a slightly different angle than they should. Removed it, problem gone. I will re-install and pay closer attention (I’ve had it off once and it was fine before that so I know it will work).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:31 am 
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Glad you got it figured out.

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