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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 1902
Location: Arkansas, USA (NWA)
Read this thread and use velocity and mass or dram equivalent to approximate a load's pressure. There are many low pressure loads that have super high brass. I printed and carry GunFun's chart for reference. Other factors can affect cycling but this is the big one.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3345

For your purposes in a 13.5" SBS, I'd recommend 3.50 Dr. eq . or so in a buffered copper plated #4 buck load with a Federal Flitecontrol wad or the like. Be warned. Flash will be...memorable. ;)

About ammo temp:
The real issue is powder temp. Some is more susceptible than others, but load pressures can vary quite noticeably with temp. Certain powders when cold produce less pressure to cycle a weapon. Vise versa for heat - can make rounds "hot". This effect is more pronounced in high powder volume calibers (shotguns and log range rifles). Heating ammo in the sun is an old sniper trick to stretch the arc. Some powder is more susceptible than others. Best to emulate worst case conditions and prove the actual loads you will be running.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:58 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:44 pm
Posts: 36
Good to know Mike, I appreciate the input. I am NOT familiar with the AK platform, but i'm learning. I saw that you said they require very lil lubrication, can even be run dry in a pinch. I've never used Frog Lube, but when you do, what are you applying it to specifically on the internal sliding components to reduce friction, and how much/how often?

Appreciate it Brother


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:18 am 
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Nephilim,

Thanks for linking me to the chart. I have seen people talking about the chart that Gunfun had created to help everyone identify their best load for their weapon. I'm not worried about the price of ammo so much, they department is buying, so I'll buy the good 00 buck and slugs for sighting in my Eotech. I didn't buy one for the Vepr, I had one lying around from doinf all the armory work for our department's AR's. What I didn't know that 00 buck and slugs can still run a low dram equivalent. So you are saying that even the internal shot is MUCH more deadly, some manufacturers reduce the powder charge on tactical ammo (00 buck, slugs, etc)?If that's the case, I need to do some research of our armory and find out what exactly we have. I will report back to you. I also appreciate the recommendation of the #4 shot, BUT, in my department, we MUST use their caliber ammo, which leaves me with 00 buck in a pellet shell or a slug, which defeats the purpose of me carrying a shotgun into the types of situations I will be using it for. I do, however, get your point, and will first check our brand and specs on our 00 buck and report back to you on it. Then I will use that specific ammo to train with, likd we said, upside dowm, on my head, sideways, every way possible to ensure no misfires. I'll freeze the ammo, etc. If I end up with a reliable gun, fantastic! I move on to EVL to proceed with the SBS, if not, then we jump up in dram 00 buck and see if I can get a stable functioning load.
I have read and watched every possible way to clean up and polish the bolt assembly, hammer, etc. I haven't touched anything yet. But time will tell where I may have to go, or maybe I'll be just fine until Evl gets his hands on It :)

I will let you know my cartridge brand and dram loads.. Thanks again !!

Also, not to be a pain in the ass, but I was going to post a picture of the gun, but it stopped me and said it's too large. How to you get around shrinking a pic so small to post it??? My pic was like 4.4 mb and it said it could only be like 512 K I think!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 1902
Location: Arkansas, USA (NWA)
I completely understand about the required ammo for the dept. Figured that was the case. As I uunderstand it, many departments use lighter loads since most bad guys are unarmored and recoil can be rough in a pump that absorbs none to cycle. Let us know what you are required to run.

The ammo suggestion was wishful thinking. I suggested the #4 buck because it creates the most wound trauma per hit while penetrating 12". It is most likely to yield a stop on the first shot, and ricochet pellets will have less energy and thus less collateral damage potential. To be clear to everyone, I am recommending #4 buck. #4 shot is a much smaller pellet. Also in full disclosure, most of what I'm telling you I learnt from GunFun. He is the local ammo expert and a very intelligent and helpful guy.

Just something to be aware of: Optics on the dust cover are well documented to often cause the weapon to choke. Mount ALL the way to the rear and use the smallest profile on the ejection side you can. A more reliable option would be to use the rear sight block rail Evl is producing in a small run. It will not tamper with ejection and will be much more solid. If this is what you choose, I'd let him know ASAP as they may not be manufactured again and the group pre-order should is the best bet for a discounted price. He has a thread about it here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5193

On the other hand, I personally prefer to shoot instinctively with a shotgun.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 am
Posts: 1715
Location: Great State of Pennsylvania
There are low recoil slugs and buckshot. I would stay away from that stuff. I have bought the Rio low recoil slugs for a test but I don't have much faith in them in semi autos if my life depended on it. My shotguns love the Winchester slugs from Wally World. They are very accurate in my V12s and Saigas. The cool thing about the AK platform is how they kinda disperse the felt recoil.Even my kids told me that the V12 has less recoil than a pump 12. Bob has a pic of his daughter shooting a V12 of their porch in one of the blogs. If you wanna get rocked a little try some 3" Win slugs. I have used Kicklite stocks on my Veprs and Saigas and I really like them. They even reduce the punch of the 3" shells and they are adjustable too. Usually when I use Frog Lube I scrub it on with a toothbrush and then heat it up with a hair dryer and melt it in. Sometimes I heat the parts first then apply, scrub with brush and let them sit. Then I reheat with hair dryer and wipe off all the excess. It kinda leaves a really smooth protective coating without the gooey dripping properties of gun oils.I use it in my gas tubes and bores as well- kinda like waxing a Ferrari I guess. The AK platform will run completely dry if it's built right. I'm sure they would run rusty too but I'm staying away from that experiment. Lol. The only reason you really need to oil/ treat them is to protect them. Alot of the newer AKS like the Veprs have really good factory coatings.The Romys and alot of Com Bloc AKS don't have these coatings and can be more prone to rust if you don't at least put a light coating of something on them. A humid environment will accelerate rust over an arid environment. You are in for a good ride with the AK platform. They are known for their reliability in all environments.I keep a dehumidifier running where I store alot of my firearms.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 1902
Location: Arkansas, USA (NWA)
About pics.

Use Google to search "vepr.org pic hosting" Google is the best way to look things up on the forum. You can select to see all fromthis site for many results.

I don't remember which service works best. GunFun seemed to have it figured out. LOL ;)

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Praise the LORD, an' pass the amma-nition!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:16 pm
Posts: 1790
chadar15 wrote:
a shotgun in the patrol car is loaded in a specific order of 00 buck and slugs, all 2 3/4 law enforcement loads....

.... This year I didn't need pants, I needed a Vepr, lol....

......One question, off topic: Mike, you are speaking about Frog Lube, what do you guys on here feel about it used on the Vepr? ....

I'd love to type and chat for days with your (long) post, but I'm on vacation and using a laptop that I hate (can't type on), so my reply is short. Sorry. :roll:

I have the 5 round MOLOT mag loaded and waiting for unexpected with #4 buckshots and slugs. I think we're on the same page. Also curious to exactly what "LE loads" equate to.

Your "pants" comment is awesome. Might have to put that in your signature line. ;)

Once I had found the baseline for my second V12, and allowed it to "settle in", I then used Frog Lube, and as it turned out I was able to use lower dram ammo than I ever was. It's documented in one of the pages of my thread. Towards the end, but I'll be darned if I'm going to try to find it at 10:30 on this crappy laptop in the middle of Oklahoma siting in a hotel room.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:46 pm 
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Location: Yulee, Florida
Try some Federal LE Premium 2-3/4" 9 pellet 00 Buck. It is an impressive load. I saw a ballistic gel test of it that was WOW! Can't find it now though.

Here is a decent video of the focus of the shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwyEEFuun1w

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:04 pm 
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evlblkwpnz wrote:
Try some Federal LE Premium 2-3/4" 9 pellet 00 Buck. It is an impressive load. I saw a ballistic gel test of it that was WOW! Can't find it now though.

Here is a decent video of the focus of the shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwyEEFuun1w

:shock: That 10 foot shot....... :o


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:22 pm 
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makawonuhbiggahol@10feet

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