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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:19 am 
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merdenoms wrote:
Hey gunfun, can you post that picture of the different shells at the end of the first video so I can see it better? So are the supplies for reloading shotshells pretty cheap?



I took a picture, but it didn't hold still:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu9mB-hH ... fs3bRX7QLw

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Great info I stumbled on here. It's a shame it's way back on page four, so...."Bump", to get it back up top.
This is gold, not to be lost in the archives.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:44 pm 
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Thanks. Glad it helped. Thanks for the bump too. I don't just sticky every thread I make. (and stickies paradoxically tend to be ignored anyway) So, if people aren't interested they sink to the bottom of the pile.

Oddly that series of videos was the one I put the most effort into good production (other than a gross framing error.) It gets comparatively few views.

If you have any questions, or any special tricks, I am always interested in improving any process I do. Actually I need to reload most everything. My supplies have gotten low due to lack of reloading time, and a move a few months back.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:59 pm 
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You're welcome.
I'm very interested in reloading for the V12. I never would have thought it would be cost effective for shotshells, even firing the low brass, but it looks like it's a no-brainer in the long run.
Looks like a couple hundred would get you started?
Also, can slugs be done in quantities of more than one at a time?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:59 pm 
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bob in st. louis wrote:
You're welcome.
I'm very interested in reloading for the V12. I never would have thought it would be cost effective for shotshells, even firing the low brass, but it looks like it's a no-brainer in the long run.
Looks like a couple hundred would get you started?
Also, can slugs be done in quantities of more than one at a time?


I'll try to address your comment & questions 1 at a time, inter linearly.

Comment 1) I never would have thought it would be cost effective for shotshells, even firing the low brass, but it looks like it's a no-brainer in the long run.

Answers
1a) Don't take this as a put down, please. It's not meant that way. Unlearn the terms "high brass" and "low brass". They only cause trouble. Brass height means less than nothing now. The hulls rated to the highest pressures i.e. Fed Gold Medal have mid low brass, Rem STS very low actual brass. Commercial ammo can be potent or mild with either high low or mid brass. These days, the terms only exist as a red flag that the person speaking has been going on 'old wives tale' level collective understanding that high brass used to be associated with potent shells. Marketing reasons often mean that modern ammo follows this pattern, but so inconsistently as to cause a lot of confusion. Instead, talk about pressure or muzzle energy (dram equivalency is muzzle energy broken down into tiers)

1b) economics.

The full article above breaks it down with a few examples. But I will give you the TL/DR: if you are talking about blasting the cheapest trap load, by cost it's about a draw. Except your hand loads are going to be better ammo- more consistent, better wads. Powder tuned to give you exactly the power level you want. These most basic vanilla trap loads are hard to make much cheaper than you can buy them. You may or may not find it worth your while to reload these. Mostly depends on whether you enjoy the process. However, consistently having a huge supply of ammo that you know your gun likes and you know how it patterns is pretty nice. I like gun club hulls for this load, and claybuster AA clone wads. You are getting premium ammo for bulk pack prices. Lot's of choices in this category though. Typically I can make these between 0 and 6 cents each cheaper than buying bulk pack ammo.

Where you get ahead is EVERYTHING OTHER THAN VANILLA. So if you want more or less shot, more or less power. Different size of shot, different style of wad, more velocity, slugs, buckshot.... Then your ammo is probable less than half the money. And tuned exactly to your needs. You also get to make loads that aren't produced commercially. i.e. my sweetspot #4 buck HD load.

1c) no brainer. ---- It depends. If you are detail oriented, and can work in a way that is efficient enough to feel "worth your time", then yes. I am all about refining best practices from others and working efficiently and consistently. This is mostly a personality question, and worth your time is all about your personal estimation.

Q2) Looks like a couple hundred would get you started?

2a) I think you could do it under a hundred. Get a basic press, with either adjustable charge bar or all the bushings. Lee is nice in that they come with a full kit of bushings, and replacement kits for the Whole set are ~$10 IIRC. You can pick them up often with other supplies at garage sales for around $50 for a big pile of stuff. Mec, and the others can be $12-25 per bushing, which is stupid. You also ought to get a scale from day #1. Bushing tables rarely match actual powder drop weights.

For most people, I think I would suggest getting a MEC JR model with a collet sizer (grabber models ) and an adjustable charge bar. (the bar might not be included, and costs about $45. Totally worth it, because bushings are stupid and the cost adds up quickly) I'd pay about $60 for a mec press with primer feed, and $100 if it has the adj. charge bar, off of ebay. Grabber collet sizer makes sizing brass much more efficient, and the mec presses are much more adjustable.

Lee is OK too, but the lack of adjustment and poor ergonomics hold it back. I have a couple videos on how to radically improve them though, so if you get a deal, go for it and get started. Pro: you can't adjust it too badly. Con: you can't adjust it too well either. No adjustments. My videos show you how to get more precise control and speed for better ammo.
Pro of just picking up the Lee: it can be nice to have a couple presses set up for different loads and just leave them set up. i.e. lee is set up for buckshot and stays set for your pet buckshot load.... MEC gets used for every thing else.

Tell you what. Browse MEC presses on ebay, and p.m. me a likely candidate or two before bidding and I will tell you if it is missing anything important and how much I would bid.

If you are willing to spend $160+ on a press progressives are worth while, but it really is nice to have a single stage around even when you have a progressive. I have an older 1960s MEC progressive, and it is only marginally faster than I was doing with single stage. More chances to mess something up by forgetting one of the several human interactions that are necessary with each pull of the lever. More adjustments to get right or wrong. It has cost me more in spilled powder and clean up time too. The newer versions do more of the things for you, so setup is more complex but once you are going things go faster and more foolproof. $$$ -- I suggest getting a single stage mec first. Even if you decide you hate reloading they are always worth about $75.

Tell you what. Browse MEC presses on ebay, and p.m. me a likely candidate or two before bidding and I will tell you if it is missing anything important and how much I would bid.

2b) Casting slugs would be an additional cost: You will get decent accuracy, but don't expect factory. Get the Lee 4-20 pot for around $75. End of story, it's the right one to buy. Then I would get the Lee 7/8 oz mold, and use either Win AA12SL or Federal 12S0 wads with them. The mold is around $20-25 depending on where you buy. Watch fortunecookie45LC videos on how to use them. It's all about temp control. This is fast to cast and fun to shoot. If you want more accuracy and don't mind paying more and spending longer per projectile to cast, you want a Lyman 525 mold. The mold and handles come separate. Around a hundred bucks, but you can use Lee 6 cav handles for a cheaper more awkward way to cast. Use these with Fed 12S3 wads.

Buy the RCBS reloading manual. It's the one to buy. $25 or so.There's free data online from the powder manufacturers, so I didn't include this in the cost, but it is very well worth the money.





Q3) slugs can be done more than 1 at a time?

3a) I am not sure what you are asking. I usually get set up and cast several hundred in a batch, then later load 3-800 in a sitting. I am an efficient caster and reloader. Casting I sit for ~3 hours and typically have 700-1000 slugs cast for the time. I load the slugs at a rate of around a couple hundred an hour single stage. Progressively it is very slightly faster, but my machine gives me more control of various things, so I think I get better more consistent ammo.

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:34 pm 
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GunFun wrote:
Q3) slugs can be done more than 1 at a time?

3a) I am not sure what you are asking.

The slug mold only doing one at a time. I've see the buckshot molds that do 20 at a time.
Would be cool to do slugs in batches of several in one "pour".

GF, Your information is fantastic. Definitely worthy of a sticky. ;)
Thank you Sir, I'll be revisiting this. But first, I need to recover from the $1400 I've just spent on the gun (not to mention the $5000 on kitchen appliances).


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:04 pm 
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bob in st. louis wrote:
GunFun wrote:
Q3) slugs can be done more than 1 at a time?

3a) I am not sure what you are asking.

The slug mold only doing one at a time. I've see the buckshot molds that do 20 at a time.
Would be cool to do slugs in batches of several in one "pour".

GF, Your information is fantastic. Definitely worthy of a sticky. ;)
Thank you Sir, I'll be revisiting this. But first, I need to recover from the $1400 I've just spent on the gun (not to mention the $5000 on kitchen appliances).


Slugs have hollow cavities in them. This means multicavity gang molds are mostly impractical. However, you could get someone like MP molds to machine you one with an automatic core pin holder.

p.s. the buckshot molds require a lot of hand sorting and prep. They are also hard to get to fill out well. From what I have seen, they are not currently time efficient per load enough to be worth it for me. Especially since I prefer #4 and #1 buck. The sharp shooter molds are ergonomically terrible and also very labor intensive. The lee 18 cavity molds are better designed, but for my preferred #4 B load that would result in more than one pour per shell. For that reason, I buy Rem feild grade #4 B in 25 lb sacks from precisionreloading.com . Also, I'll be having a custom 2 or 4 cavity mold made for the automated bullet caster business I have in development. That will get me very round buckshot with a slight sprue divot. Since the robot will do the casting, I don't care that it only makes 2-4 per pour. I'll just leave it running most of the day and have a bucket or few of buckshot.

For OO buck, Let's say you get 15 good pellets per pour in the 18 pellet lee mold. That seems to be about what is reasonable to expect. This means for every 3 pours you would get enough good pellets to make 5 shells. Plus you may decide to save time by skipping the snipping. You could stick 3 whole pellet strings in the wad at a time and allow firing to break them apart. That's a little more sensible, but I have almost no use for 00Buck.

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P.M. me if you want help:
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shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:06 am 
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Understood. Yea, I'f I'm going to reload, it'll be for slugs, as 00 seems awful labor intensive.
I mean jeezz.... you're making BB's.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:56 am 
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You can buy a sack of buckshot. That's what I currently do. I have made a measure which automatically counts out the pellets. I dump them in a way that makes them stack neatly, then push them in and force a crimp.

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P.M. me if you want help:
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shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:20 am 
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Roger that. I'm mostly interested in the slugs. The buckshot *might* appeal to me. Maybe. (Lots of factors there that would take this thread OT).


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