THE VEPR FORUM

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:11 pm 
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I decided to make a couple videos during a study break.

I hope you will find them to be helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT2y4Uvf ... 4-overview


I just traded this press for a saiga mag and some reloading supplies. The guy I traded it to was nice enough to allow me to keep it an extra week to make the video. So the videography is far from perfect, but there is no way I can re-shoot that portion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVxlFtS6 ... 4-overview

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:05 am 
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Been looking to start to get into relaoding shotshells for hunting and for the new VEPR 12

maybe you can either PM me or give a list of stuff you used, have used?

I would like a rough idea on cost to get started and keep in mind i am not making them to sell. I have seen a press for like $75 and can buy hulls with primers for $16 per 100 i think

Lee 12 Ga Load-All Ii 90011 ...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:36 am 
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I think a phone call might be the easiest way to figure out what your needs are and come up with a plan & cost/labor threshold assesment for you. I'll PM you my phone #

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:17 am 
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I learned a great deal from that and think it was an excellent contribution.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:33 am 
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Thanks.

It was really intended as a gap filler to the body of knowledge out there. I wouldn't consider either of those to be a starting point. I don't see much point in rehashing content other people have done well.

If anyone is interested in casting, or reloading pistol, rifle or shotgun, give me a p.m. or call. I'll help get you set up. I'm willing to put together complete shopping lists upon request, but I'd tailor them to the needs and skill of the individual.



I don't pretend to be a benchrest shooter, so extreme precision long rifle isn't my forte, but I can probably help with figureing out what you could expect and steer people toward

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:59 am 
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My philosophy of reloading:

Core principles:
1: The ammo must be safe.
2: the ammo must be good.
2.1: ammo customized to your use or to your firearm is often better than commercial ammo.
2.2: ammo that is not consistent is not good.
3: The ammo must be cost effective per category
3.1: That includes my time
4: buy only the equipment which contributes to the above.
5: Only add labor that contributes to the above.

"Fingerprinting" is the bane of each of the first 3 core principles.
Every time you must touch, move, or inspect a component takes time, and is an opportunity to make a mistake. Therefore, a smart reloader plans his process to economize his motion, automate as much as is practical. Attention should not be divided, it should be focused on the most critical fail points. A system which requires 100% focus on attention to each and every step is much more prone to failure. Good machinery will help you to be looking right at the danger zones and ignore the rest. Good organization will help you catch mistakes early, and will prevent redundant checks.

Create a good system and stick to it. Changes are chances to make mistakes. They should be done thoughtfully. There is a large body of information out there, others have made the mistakes so you don't have to. There is better info online than in person, because most reloaders learned in isolation without access to the knowledge of others. Your buddy who has had his system figured out for 50 years is probably doing things the hard way. He knows a lot, but a lot of the problems he is working around have been solved long since.

Advantages:
1: Cost. You can shoot more.
2: Custom. More accurate, broader choice of projectiles, and power.
3: Availabilty: your favorite supplier of your favorite load will always be in stock.
4: Pride/ self sufficiency.

Disadvantages:
1: Start up cost.
2: storage of stuff
3: time
4: requires organization and responsibility. Attention span is a big safety factor (brains don't hurt either)

Big philosophical point,

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Hey gunfun, can you post that picture of the different shells at the end of the first video so I can see it better? So are the supplies for reloading shotshells pretty cheap?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:36 pm 
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I'll take a pic sometime later. Good idea.

Most of them are relatively cheap:

Short answer: Primer 3.4 cents, hull free, powder 4-7 cents, wad 1.5 cents, 1 1/8 oz birdshot ~12 cents.
If you scrounge you can beat those prices. If you just walk into a store and buy what they have it will work out to around 24-26 cents a shell for standard vanilla birdshot loads. But don't get disappointed. Keep reading. Scroungers can knock about 7 cents off of that, and they usually have enough cheap components that they beat inflation too. The parts that go up in price don't take very much space to store, so you can wait for a killer deal and get a 15 year supply, and really beat price hikes.

Depending on where you live that might be about what it costs to buy the same shell ready made. It pays though when you buy in bulk, or when you make anything OTHER than the vanilla. Whether lighter, or heavier, faster or slower, or any load of slugs or buck, there you save.

Hulls: free I suggest just picking up "gun club" hulls at the range. They load to STS data and are good for 4-8 reloads depending on how hot you load, etc. But here's the thing- people who talk about "i buy __premium brand__ hulland get 15-20 reloads out of them..." are really saying "i buy __premium brand__ hulland get 10 good reloads out of them a couple more fair ones, and a whole bunch with worn out crimps..." (crimps greatly effect consistency and power) IMO better to use the free ones a few times with great crimps and chuck them. I pick up the premiums too, an save them for loads I want to be visually distinctive or for hot loads.
Good premium hulls: Federal Gold Medal, Remington STS, Winchester AA or AA HS.

Primers: ~$03.6/each often more like 4.3 if you aren't paying attention now. TULA and Wolf from Natchezz are under 3 cents when you buy in bulk enough to overcome the hazmat fee. This is the big place to save. NOTE Chaging brands of primers greatly affects the power and pressure of a recipe. Each load needs to be worked up from scratch if you change primer brands.

Powder: ~$21/lb or substantially cheaper if you buy 8 LB jugs. Depends on what you use.

Wads: Last big order I did came to $0.0159 cents each after shipping.

Buy them from precision reloading or your LGS. I haven't priced them lately but bulk pricing saves a lot. Generics are fine for anything but slugs. Slugs don't seat properly in the tapered shotcups of most claybuster wads. Precision reloading is the place to check.

Buckshot: ~$80/25 LBS for Rem field grade from precision. Or Free if you get a mold and don't mind spending the time. Mold costs about $55 for the recommend Lee mold.

The last batch I made were what I would consider to be a good HD load (not comparable load available for sale) and they cost me a shade under 32 cents each. The best part is getting exactly what ballistics you want, rather than settling for what manufacturers think you will buy.

Birdshot: This has had two big price hikes last year. It's now $40-43 per 25 lbs local. Online is slightly cheaper, but shipping makes it not pay usually. Super bulk may flip that equation.

Slugs. Ready made ones cost as much as factory loads. Nope, unless you want to make something special.
Lee Slug mods: ~$25. "pure" Lead @35 cents a pound = 2.1 cents per shot. If you use range scrap, it's free. That's right. Slugs are cheaper than birdshot. Right now, a complete slug load costs me

_________________
P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:44 am 
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Just a quick note...depending on the load will require a specific wad to be used. Buck shot, bird shot, steel shot all require a different wad. Do some research on the internet before you head off to your favorite reloading store. I have two bags of wads that cannot be used in my buck shot application in my garage. They worked but....the top of the crimp came open on several (most). They are not that expensive but I trusted the knowledge of the reloader....big mistake. The process of reloading shotgun rounds is really easier than many may believe and its a little fun to create something that will go "boom" in the boom stick!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:13 am 
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True, but I use wads that work well with all of the above.

I suggest Claybuster AA12 clones for birdshot. Federal 12S3 or 12S4 or clones for buckshot. Win 12SL or Fed 12SO for Lee slugs, Federal 12S3 for Lyman.

_________________
P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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