THE VEPR FORUM

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:16 am 
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Location: Great State of Pennsylvania
You dont have enough Mosins.Lol I love my Mosins too. Dont worry about the ammo.Just clean the gun. I spray out the gas chambers with Gun Scrubber. Sometimes I spray out the trigger parts. I have found that the Silver Tip functions flawlessly in my 54rs. HAVE FUN.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:20 am
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What are the odds the government will ban mil-sup ammo and vepr imports with the current Russian Situation?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:29 am 
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Posts: 145
ya never know but there is still other country's that make it and have it


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:12 am 
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Chances of a ban on ammo? Somewhere between 0% and 0.1%. Chances of a bunch of nuts causing a panic buy? 75% minimum

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:37 am 
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Posts: 795
even if the USGOVT banned Russian imports, which would be stupid, we would only see a slight price increase, as measures are already in place to import the same ammo from either Estonia or Serbia.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:50 am
Posts: 32
Here's my two cents:

There's a lot of myths that seem to have popped up around corrosive primers and how to clean them. The corrosive compound to watch out for in old surplus primers is a salt called potassium chlorate which becomes potassium chloride (aka KCl) when the primer is fired. It's very similar to sodium chloride aka table salt- so similar in fact that it's used in water softeners and low-sodium table salt substitutes. Thanks to the presence of chlorine- one of the most reactive elements on the periodic table- it loves to cause corrosion when it comes in contact with metals. I've had old Czech and Romanian ammo cause surface rust to form in non-chromed bores within a day even after dousing it with RemOil. As you can see here it can pose a hazard to iron, carbon steel, and even certain types of stainless. KCl plus barrel steel creates an ionic reaction wherein electrons are actually transferred from the steel to the KCl and on top of that the compound is hygroscopic, meaning it can draw and hold water molecules (in turn responsible for it's own damaging oxidation reaction.) That property is both as curse and a blessing for us as I'll explain in a second.

The common gunshop wisdom seems to be that ammonia will "neutralize" the salts and that Windex contains ammonia, ergo use Windex to clean corrosive primer residue. Unfortunately this is an incorrect assumption as KCl actually has a rather low solubility rate in pure liquid ammonia (.4g KCl/1kg ammonia at 80 degrees.) At that same temperature since KCl is so hygroscopic you can dissolve 360 grams KCl into 1kg plain old tap water, and it only becomes a better solvent as it's heated. On top of that as per it's MSDS Windex contains no ammonia, not even the stuff marked Ammonia-D. It's just a marketing term as the Windex is mostly water with a bit of alcohol and a tiny smidge of ethylene glycol monohexyl ether, an industrial solvent containing zero ammonia. Hoppes #9 is up to 7% ammonium hydroxide so if ammonia was what we actually needed then that would do the trick, but Windex? Not so much. It's made for getting smudges off dirty windows and if you're using it for cleaning corrosive ammo the only ingredient in there that's helping you is all the water it contains.

I clean up after shooting corrosive ammo by using a good copper solvent to ensure no KCl is trapped under metallic residue (THIS is where ammonia actually excels as a solvent.) I then rinse the bore with hot soapy water; raising the temp of the water increases the already impressive amount of KCl it will absorb and the soap acts as emulsifier to ensure no KCl survives trapped under oils. To dry the bore and exterior I simply use an air compressor with a pressure nozzle then spray it down inside and out with a good rust inhibitor like CLP.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:15 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Kalifornia
projectiledysfuncton wrote:
Here's my two cents:

I clean up after shooting corrosive ammo by using a good copper solvent to ensure no KCl is trapped under metallic residue (THIS is where ammonia actually excels as a solvent.) I then rinse the bore with hot soapy water; raising the temp of the water increases the already impressive amount of KCl it will absorb and the soap acts as emulsifier to ensure no KCl survives trapped under oils. To dry the bore and exterior I simply use an air compressor with a pressure nozzle then spray it down inside and out with a good rust inhibitor like CLP.


Copper solvent? Never heard of the stuff. What's a good example?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:59 am 
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Hoppes #9 is a classic example, and one of the more effective. Basically, copper wants to react, and so does ammonia, so most of the effective copper solvents have a lot of ammonia.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:31 am
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Love military surplus... Gp-11 all the way! :) I'm reloading 7.5x55, but still trying to stock up on the GP11 stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:13 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:36 am
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Location: Interlochen, MI
projectiledysfuncton wrote:
Here's my two cents:

There's a lot of myths that seem to have popped up around corrosive primers and how to clean them. The corrosive compound to watch out for in old surplus primers is a salt called potassium chlorate which becomes potassium chloride (aka KCl) when the primer is fired. It's very similar to sodium chloride aka table salt- so similar in fact that it's used in water softeners and low-sodium table salt substitutes. Thanks to the presence of chlorine- one of the most reactive elements on the periodic table- it loves to cause corrosion when it comes in contact with metals. I've had old Czech and Romanian ammo cause surface rust to form in non-chromed bores within a day even after dousing it with RemOil. As you can see here it can pose a hazard to iron, carbon steel, and even certain types of stainless. KCl plus barrel steel creates an ionic reaction wherein electrons are actually transferred from the steel to the KCl and on top of that the compound is hygroscopic, meaning it can draw and hold water molecules (in turn responsible for it's own damaging oxidation reaction.) That property is both as curse and a blessing for us as I'll explain in a second.

The common gunshop wisdom seems to be that ammonia will "neutralize" the salts and that Windex contains ammonia, ergo use Windex to clean corrosive primer residue. Unfortunately this is an incorrect assumption as KCl actually has a rather low solubility rate in pure liquid ammonia (.4g KCl/1kg ammonia at 80 degrees.) At that same temperature since KCl is so hygroscopic you can dissolve 360 grams KCl into 1kg plain old tap water, and it only becomes a better solvent as it's heated. On top of that as per it's MSDS Windex contains no ammonia, not even the stuff marked Ammonia-D. It's just a marketing term as the Windex is mostly water with a bit of alcohol and a tiny smidge of ethylene glycol monohexyl ether, an industrial solvent containing zero ammonia. Hoppes #9 is up to 7% ammonium hydroxide so if ammonia was what we actually needed then that would do the trick, but Windex? Not so much. It's made for getting smudges off dirty windows and if you're using it for cleaning corrosive ammo the only ingredient in there that's helping you is all the water it contains.

I clean up after shooting corrosive ammo by using a good copper solvent to ensure no KCl is trapped under metallic residue (THIS is where ammonia actually excels as a solvent.) I then rinse the bore with hot soapy water; raising the temp of the water increases the already impressive amount of KCl it will absorb and the soap acts as emulsifier to ensure no KCl survives trapped under oils. To dry the bore and exterior I simply use an air compressor with a pressure nozzle then spray it down inside and out with a good rust inhibitor like CLP.


Very Informative, thank you! quick question, how about using regular ammonia as a cleaner. The cheap .99 stuff from hardware stores, Ammonium Hydroxide?


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