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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:15 am 
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Big Sal
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What is the general consensus regarding the durability of the Ace folding mechanism vs, say the AK100 pattern or other non-bubba'ed folding mechanism?
I am thinking anything held horizontally with locktite is inherently a poor choice to put on rifle, but Id like to hear everyone elses take on it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:12 pm 
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Generally the ACE sidefolders are pretty sturdy, but they will fail before the ak100 or AKS74 style units will.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:32 pm 
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I am not an engineer, but my educated guess is that you are correct. I am concerned with anything held together with loctite and horizontal screws. I have a few friends that run Ace folders, but they are really just weekend shooters unconcerned with field reliability. I think the Beryl folder (or bonesteel unit), AK74m pattern, Molot RPK/V12 Mechanism or AKSU pattern folder mechanisms are probably the strongest. Id like to test this out somehow.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:34 am 
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AK100 for the WIN! Absolutely no doubt in my mind that the AK100 will take more abuse and have a longer service life than the previously mentioned hinges. However, they are probably fine for people who are not rough on gear.

evl....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:23 am 
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evlblkwpnz wrote:
AK100 for the WIN! Absolutely no doubt in my mind that the AK100 will take more abuse and have a longer service life than the previously mentioned hinges. However, they are probably fine for people who are not rough on gear.

evl....


Exactly. I think the ACE units are fine for hobbyists and folk who dont really need a durable solution, but want a tactical "look".

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 2:40 am 
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I think you maybe over estimating the problem, i have at least one ace folding mechanism that has been in service for about ten years now, and have had and played with others that have been used nearly as long. Mine still locks up tight, no play, and works well. I dont see the ak 100 folder as being all that inherently strong as the latch surfaces seem like higher wear parts, especially looking at the triangle folders. I believe the molot assesment of the ak100 folder was correct, as the rpk style folder is much sturdier, and frankly, a better design.

stormwerks im not so confident in, its basically the same design, but the axis pin in the only one i have ever tried started walking out in about 3 days of use, and though, once i pressed and peened the pin it never moved again, it was relegated to the parts bin as a no confidence vote.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:06 am 
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Big Sal
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ReverendFranz wrote:
I think you maybe over estimating the problem, i have at least one ace folding mechanism that has been in service for about ten years now...


In service with which army? Or are we just talking about it being used for range trips and the occasional campout for ten years? Like I said, the Ace mechanism seems like a fun hobbyist solution for folks who want that tactical look, but dont want to mess with the receiver and arent concerned with durability.

I gotta agree with Evl here: the ak100 and AK74S/AKSU folders are built for abuse.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:26 am 
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Perhaps you agree with your own bias and predeterminations, but i am saying, in fact and practice, the ace hinge is fine, i have tried my own buttstroke torture tests, and, while i dont shoot as much in the current economic clime, used to roll through a good number of rounds weekly, for several years. That would be without failure. If you look at the design differences between the ak100 and the galil stock, from which the ace and stormwerks is copied, you would immediately see a definite advantage. The galil stock, through its dual inclined surfaces, having a wear strong design. actually tightens as it wears, where as the ak 100 stock, having no such design feature, as it wears becomes loose and unpredictable. The triangle stock is almost entirely stamped sheet metal with thin, wearable edges. Edges that have no safeguard against wear, by design.

now, the main, reasonable, objection to these devices is a matter of material, not. Design, and many people have argued about the suitability of aluminum in gun parts, going back to the m16, i would be happier with a steel hinge, but not so much so that i would otherwise call everything else useless

on the other hand, the rpk stock is awesome, all aks should have one.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:24 pm 
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None of my AK100s have shown any sign of loosening up. The evlblksbs has seen abuse beyond what most user's weapons would likely ever see and still feels like a fixed stock.

Let me borrow your tried and true aftermarket folder and I will put it on something. I will set up an identical AK100 dawned rig and subject them to the exact same conditions until something related to the stock breaks, be it mine or yours. "Service" for my weapons is more like Sadism (non-sexual definition). It could make for some interesting video and would surely elicit a strong response from the youtube community.

evl....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:47 pm 
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evlblkwpnz wrote:
None of my AK100s have shown any sign of loosening up. The evlblksbs has seen abuse beyond what most user's weapons would likely ever see and still feels like a fixed stock.

Let me borrow your tried and true aftermarket folder and I will put it on something. I will set up an identical AK100 dawned rig and subject them to the exact same conditions until something related to the stock breaks, be it mine or yours. "Service" for my weapons is more like Sadism (non-sexual definition). It could make for some interesting video and would surely elicit a strong response from the youtube community.

evl....



That is a direct challenge to anyone, not just Rev. This is a real "put up or shut up" moment. We have someone willing to pit his ak100 folder head to head against the ACE mechanism to determine durability.


...I am anxious to see the test results!

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