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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Posts: 83
Location: ST Louis Metro (St Charles County, MO)
I've really found the information on this forum to be helpful as a new Vepr 12 owner, and I wanted to try and give back, so I compiled everything I'd read about 922r and put it into a (hopefully) easy to follow guide. Special thanks to Nephilim7 (whose posts on the subject I borrowed from most heavily), as well as every one else on the forum. Any corrections or suggestins for improvement are welcome.

This guide is a compilation of the knowledge and opinions of the Vepr 12 sub forum on the Vepr.org forums. I am not an attourney and this guide does not constitute professional legal advice, only an honest good faith compilation of the forum's information on the subject. As such, I assume no liability for any errors or omitions that it may have.

922R TLDR: If you leave your gun stock and don't use anything except 5 round Molot mags, you are fine as is. If you want/need 922r compliance, then you need to Replace your gas puck, your pistol grip, and EITHER your magazines OR trigger group. (there are a few other options, but 95% of people go those routes)


Now, if you want a bit more detail, here goes...

If you only use 5 round Molot magazines and don't alter your gun, you won't activate 922r (because it only applies if you modify the gun, and, yes, using anything but a 5 round Molot magazine counts as modifying it according to 922r) and don't need to worry about it. If, however you wish to use high capacity magazines or alter certain things, then 922r triggers and you'll need to replace at least 5 parts with us made ones.



Below are the parts that count for 922r, classified by ease of replacement and type

Commonly and relatively easily replaced parts
Gas pistons.
Pistol grips.
Forearms, handguards.

Trigger Group Parts
Triggers.
Hammers.
Disconnectors.

magazine parts
Magazine bodies.
Followers.
Floor plates.

Parts that are only easily replaced on some models (the original fixed stock versions)
Buttstocks.


Parts that do not have readily available replacements at this time

-Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
-Barrels
-Bolts
-Bolt carriers
-Operating rods

Parts that don't count, but people sometimes think do

-Chokes
-Muzzle breaks
-Flash hiders
-optics



922r on the cheap
( note that the cheap method of 922r compliance does not allow the use of Molot magazines in your gun, which is why it is the cheap method, rather than the "ideal" method.)

- (about $40-$60, counts as 3 parts) 1 us made magazine (either SGM 10 or 12 round or 8 round CSSpecs steel)
-1 (about $20, 1 part) gas puck ( CSSpecs makes the most common choice, but there is another made by DPH. Tapco also makes a compliant puck, but the stamping is on the side, and is believed by some to be potentially destructive to the firearm it is used in. ) Please also Note that the gas puck doesn't improve anything and is purely a compliance part
-( $7-30ish, 1 part) US made pistol grip. There are numerous choices. The Tapco SAW grip is a popular budget option ( it can be had as low as $7.00 from some dealers), the MD arms grip is inexpensive, well regarded, and very similar to the stock grip ( $12.00 plus shipping). other popular pistol grip replacements include Magpul and many other types. Note that it is a little harder to replace the pistol grip than you might expect due to the staked screw, but there is an excellent thread on the forum explaining the issue and how to resolve it, which you should read before replacing your pistol grip. More recent guns (usually) tend to be easier to remove the screw in in any case.

total cost to make a gun 922r compliant can be as low as (gas puck($20), pistol grip ($7), and magazine ($40), for a total of $67.00 (less than the cost of a single 8 round Molot), so 922r doesn't have to be expensive. Switching from the Tapco SAW grip to an MD arms pistol grip may cost an extra $10, but will yield a gun that is nearly unchanged from stock (if that's your thing), but which is allowed to use high cap us made magazines. ( and is allowed to fold if you have that model)


922r (the preferred way)

Generally, it's preferred to be 922r compliant without having to count the magazine, since if you are counting your mag, you aren't able to use a Molot mag (possibly including your factory 5 rounder in some cases). The ideal method requires a little more work, but the expense is about the same ( trigger groups run around $40-60, just like us mags)

The usual way to do it is...

-Gas Puck (1)
- pistol grip (1)
-trigger group (3 parts) the main trigger group replacement is made by Tapco. It has a mixed reputation, but ids generally not seen as innately superior to the stock trigger. Recently, Tromix has begun modifying an ALG trigger group to work in Saiga and Vepr shotguns. it is a little more money than the Tapco but has a better reputation ( and low availability at this time). Several other triggers have been modified to work, but require significant work to make function, such as one by, I believe, Texas triggers.

Alternative Routes

If you want a US made foregrip, such as the chaos quad rail, then you can skip replacing either the pistol grip or gas puck, *IF* it is a quad rail or any other foregrip that replaces both the top and bottom parts of the Molot foregrip and gas tube cover.

it is also possible to add a US made floor plate to any Molot magazines you might want to use, which would also let you keep one additional stock part (typically either the pistol grip or gas puck). I don't recommend this route, however, unless you just want to do it to a single Molot magazine, as replacing the pistol grip and gas puck are both cheap, easy changes.

common questions:

-Do I need to be 922r compliant?
A: if you use high capacity magazines, or break the weld on your folding stock ( if you have that model), then yes you do. if you leave it stock and just use 5 round Molot mags? then no, you do not need to worry about 922r.

-Do I need a US made muzzle break?
A: No. Muzzle breaks and chokes do not count for 922r for shotguns. Feel free to buy whichever one you like.

-What happens if I don't follow 922r?
A: probably nothing. To date no one has ever been prosicuted soley on a 922r violation, but it is still a good idea to comply with the law, especially since the penalties are pretty stiff for violating it.

_________________
I recommend and use the following Vepr-12 upgrades: Muzzle break: Molot GK-01; Recoil pad: Allan Company (med size); trigger: ALG AKT (*if* you like a light pull); Lube: super lube on appropriate friction surfaces.


Last edited by Ambrose on Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:38 am
Posts: 422
Location: Central Pennsyltuckey
Might want to add "This is not legal advice and IANAL". ;)

Otherwise, nice writeup!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:27 pm
Posts: 83
Location: ST Louis Metro (St Charles County, MO)
I did, right before the TLDR, but I cleaned it up a little.

_________________
I recommend and use the following Vepr-12 upgrades: Muzzle break: Molot GK-01; Recoil pad: Allan Company (med size); trigger: ALG AKT (*if* you like a light pull); Lube: super lube on appropriate friction surfaces.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:15 pm
Posts: 116
Looks good. I'd change some of the formatting....


Ambrose wrote:
I've really found the information on this forum to be helpful as a new Vepr 12 owner, and I wanted to try and give back, so I compiled everything I'd read about 922r and put it into a (hopefully) easy to follow guide. Special thanks to Nephilim7 (whose posts on the subject I borrowed from most heavily), as well as every one else on the forum. Any corrections or suggestins for improvement are welcome.

This guide is a compilation of the knowledge and opinions of the Vepr 12 sub forum on the Vepr.org forums. I am not an attourney and this guide does not constitute professional legal advice, only an honest good faith compilation of the forum's information on the subject. As such, I assume no liability for any errors or omitions that it may have.

922R TLDR: If you leave your gun stock and don't use anything except 5 round Molot mags, you are fine as is. If you want/need 922r compliance, then you need to Replace your gas puck, your pistol grip, and EITHER your magazines OR trigger group. (there are a few other options, but 95% of people go those routes)


Now, if you want a bit more detail, here goes...

If you only use 5 round molot magazines and don't alter your gun, you won't trigger 922r and don't need to worry about it. If, however you wish to use high capacity magazines or alter certain things, then 922r triggers(i'd change the word triggers to something else here. Took me 3 readings to understand) and you'll need to replace at least 5 parts with us made ones.



Below are the parts that count for 922r, classified by ease of replacement and type

Bold can be added by the tag ([b ]) without the parenthesis or space
Commonly and relatively easily replaced parts
Gas pistons.
Pistol grips.
Forearms, handguards.

Trigger parts
Triggers.
Hammers.
Disconnectors.

magazine parts
Magazine bodies.
Followers.
Floor plates.




parts that are only easily replaced on some models (the original fixed stock versions)
Buttstocks.


parts that do not have readily available replacements at this time

-Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or castings.
-Barrels
-Bolts
-Bolt carriers
-Operating rods

Parts that don't count, but people sometimes think do
-Chokes
-Muzzle breaks
-Flash hiders
-optics



922r on the cheap ( note that the cheap method of 922r compliance does not allow the use of molot magazines in yoru gun, which is why it is the cheap method, rather than the "ideal" method.)

- (about $40-$60, counts as 3 parts) 1 us made magazine (either SGM 10 or 12 round or 8 round CSSpecs steel)
-1 (about $20, 1 part) gas puck ( csspecs makes the most common choice, but there is another made by DPH. Tapco also makes a compliant puck, but the stamping is on the side, and is believed by some to be potentially destructive to the firearm it is used in. ) Please also Note that the gas puck doesn't improve anything and is purely a compliance part
-( $7-30ish, 1 part) US made pistol grip. There are numerous choices. The Tapco SAW grip is a popular budget option ( it can be had as low as $7.00 from some dealers), the MD arms grip is inexpensive, well regarded, and very similar to the stock grip ( $12.00 plus shipping). other popular pistol grip replacements include Magpul and many other types. Note that it is a little harder to replace the pistol grip than you might expect due to the staked screw, but there is an excellent thread on the forum explaining the issue and how to resolve it, which you should read before replacing your pistol grip. More recent guns (usually) tend to be easier to removoe the screw in in any case.

total cost to make a gun 922r compliant can be as low as (gas puck($20), pistol grip ($7), and magazine ($40), for a total of $67.00 (less than the cost of a single 8 round Molot), so 922r doesn't have to be expensive. Switching from the Tapco SAW grip to an MD arms pistol grip may cost an extra $10, but will yield a gun that is nearly unchanged from stock (if that's your thing), but which is allowed to use high cap us made magazines. ( and is allowed to fold if you have that model)


922r (the preferred way)

Generally, it's preferred to be 922r compliant without having to count the magazine, since if you are counting your mag, you aren't able to use a molot mag (possibly including your factory 5 rounder in some cases). The ideal method requires a little more work, but the expense is about the same ( trigger groups run around $40-60, just like us mags)

The usual way to do it is...

-Gas Puck (1)
- pistol grip (1)
-trigger group (3 parts) the main trigger group replacement is made by Tapco. It has a mixed reputation, but ids generally not seen as innately superior to the stock trigger. Recently, Tromix has begun modifying an ALG trigger group to work in Saiga and Vepr shotguns. it is a little more money than the Tapco but has a better reputation ( and low availability at this time). Several other triggers have been modified to work, but require significant work to make function, such as one by, I believe, Texas triggers.

Alternative routes

If you want a US made foregrip, such as the chaos quad rail, then you can skip replacing either the pistol grip or gas puck, *IF* it is a quad rail or any other foregrip that replaces both the top and bottom parts of the Molot foregrip and gas tube cover.

common questions:

-Do I need to be 922r compliant?
A: if you use high capacity magazines, or break the weld on your folding stock ( if you have that model), then yes you do. if you leave ti stock and just use 5 round Molot mags? then no, you do not need to worry about 922r.

-Do I need a US made muzzle break?
A: No. Muzzle breaks and chokes do not count for 922r for shotguns. Feel free to buy whichever oen you like.

-What happens if I don't follow 922r?
A: probably nothing. To date no one has ever been prosicuted soley on a 922r violation, but it is still a good idea to comply with the law, especially since the penalties are pretty stiff for violating it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:09 am
Posts: 176
Location: Behind the liberal curtain.
Add a muzzle brake after you break the folder stock weld. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:06 am 
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:02 am
Posts: 543
BlackCatfish wrote:
Add a muzzle brake after you break the folder stock weld. ;)


Adding a muzzle break at anytime (even after breaking the weld on a folding stock) on V12/S12 does not help or hinder you with 922r.

_________________
"Must get Moose and Squirrel!"


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:09 am
Posts: 176
Location: Behind the liberal curtain.
BorisBadenov wrote:
BlackCatfish wrote:
Add a muzzle brake after you break the folder stock weld. ;)


Adding a muzzle break at anytime (even after breaking the weld on a folding stock) on V12/S12 does not help or hinder you with 922r.



I didn't say anything about 922r, I don't care about that as it doesn't apply to me at all.
I was merely pointing out that brake and break do not mean the same thing.
Do you understand? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:46 am 
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 4:02 am
Posts: 543
BlackCatfish wrote:
BorisBadenov wrote:
BlackCatfish wrote:
Add a muzzle brake after you break the folder stock weld. ;)


Adding a muzzle break at anytime (even after breaking the weld on a folding stock) on V12/S12 does not help or hinder you with 922r.



I didn't say anything about 922r, I don't care about that as it doesn't apply to me at all.
I was merely pointing out that brake and break do not mean the same thing.
Do you understand? :mrgreen:

Gotcha. Being a thread about 922r, the context made seem like you were talking about 922r. :)

_________________
"Must get Moose and Squirrel!"


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:57 am
Posts: 1
I recently purchased a new vepr12. It is in stock configuration, but I would like to use the sgm drum and 12 round mags with it. Does this mean I need to swap out parts to make it compliant since they are high capacity magazines?
Thanks,
Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:12 am
Posts: 73
02z06dave wrote:
I recently purchased a new vepr12. It is in stock configuration, but I would like to use the sgm drum and 12 round mags with it. Does this mean I need to swap out parts to make it compliant since they are high capacity magazines?
Thanks,
Dave


Yup in order to use any mags other than the factory 5 rounders you will need to meet 922r requirements.


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