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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:51 am 
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Hi all, new to this forum- long time lurker, first time poster. Very excited as I have a Vepr 12 enroute to me as I write, should be here next week.

After testing and following the instructions on this forum, if it is reliable, I plan on it becoming my main home defense gun. I have several shotguns already and an assortment of ammo, but have been reading up on the Vepr and its need for higher velocity ammo. I live out in the country, no neighbors, so no worries about overpenetration, I can go big. I also am reading that Vepr can run 3” but that might overkill. Anyone have a Vepr set up for HD, and if so what are you running and why. Thanks in advance for the input!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:18 am 
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Welcome to the forum Bolt 308! The V12s are designed for the hotter loads but will run just about anything with a little refinement and breaking in. Stay away from cheap birdshot like Win. Universal. Ammo like that is really designed for PA shotguns. Whether or not you can get it to run that stuff is besides the point. Would you ever put your life on the line with garbage ammo? Heck no! I love running 3" shells but it's really not necessary unless you want to reach out and touch someone. You would be suprised with the accuracy with 3" Win slugs at 100 yards.In my mags that are loaded I either have Sellier&Bellot or Suprema Buckshot from Wally World. My guns have never had a problem with any buckshot. I would stay away from low recoil rounds for HD. I did buy some Rio reduced recoil slugs once to play with and had a few problems in one of my V12s. If you want birdshot buy some of the hotter game loads. To save money to play with is a different story. These guns are addictive. See if your V12 will cycle Federal Bulk, Suprema and Winchester for plinking and chasing milk jugs around the back 40. Have fun but don't ever cut corners on protecting your family and know the limitations of your shotgun.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Bolt_308 wrote:
Hi all, new to this forum- long time lurker, first time poster. Very excited as I have a Vepr 12 enroute to me as I write, should be here next week.

After testing and following the instructions on this forum, if it is reliable, I plan on it becoming my main home defense gun. I have several shotguns already and an assortment of ammo, but have been reading up on the Vepr and its need for higher velocity ammo. I live out in the country, no neighbors, so no worries about overpenetration, I can go big. I also am reading that Vepr can run 3” but that might overkill. Anyone have a Vepr set up for HD, and if so what are you running and why. Thanks in advance for the input!


Commie mike is pretty much right. 3" are going to run beautifully, but they are more powerful than optimum for HD unless you have a lot of yardage to cover. If you are inside 40 yards of max defensive range, you are better served with a load which is in the 3.25-4 dr eq range because of recoil. Particularly if you are using #1 or #4 buck loads in 2 3/4" flavor. Believe it or not, a 3" mag 00buck load typically has 15 pellets, which will over penetrate. The standard common field load flavor of #1 buck has 16 pellets that penetrate just right, with a lot less recoil. Your vepr will run those all day long, and you can have very fast followups. For comparison at very slightly more recoil, you get 27 wound paths for #4 buck, again in the sweet spot for penetration.

A 2 3/4" load of the right buckshot isn't just easier to shoot well than a 3" mag load of 00b, it is a lot more effective on target.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:03 pm 
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https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/winche ... atid=28463

Used some of these at the range to get a feel, great freaking pattern, slug in the center, 3 00 buck to the outside, all killzone at home defense ranges (would mostly cover a doorway). I keep my factory 5 full of them and ready to rock by the bed.

A little expensive, and I'm sure just buckshot works as well, but it's more appealing to me that the work was put into trying to figure out how to make the perfect HD round.

They also have a 1600 fps segmented slug (no buckshot) that supposedly will cover a doorway.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:53 pm 
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I have some of that. However, I still suggest that you use or four or number one buckshot instead . It has optimum penetration and much more consistent and much more full pattern than the Winchester PDX one . It also has substantially more potentially lethal or potentially incapacitating wound paths. PDX one is not bad but there are a lot of things that are more consistent and better . People also tend to treat slugs as though they are all interchangeable. they are not . Different slugs have different trajectories and radically different terminal ballistic effects . Most of the commonly available slugs are quite soft and I'll turn into a large donut on impact they are designed for small Soft skinned East Coast deer . They do not penetrate very deeply and they dump energy quickly . There are some excellent frangible slugs that are designed to do this in the space of a human however most deer slugs are excessively penetrative and have a lot more recoil . Slugs designed for stopping engines bears or hogs are substantially different.

But don't take my word for it by all means look up some of the old tests as done by Tennessee outdoors nine on YouTube or many other people who've have more consistent methodology than he was able to do at that time . Whether you like the terminal effects of those test one thing you will see is that the patterns from Winchester PDX one are mediocre and inconsistent . One thing I do not like about the pattern of PDX one is that it is kind of bad close up and down right irresponsible far away . There is an excellent article by Larry correa called something like" thinking outside your box ". it's very worth reading one of the points that it makes is that most people assume a very particular range would be their defensive scenario . Well some ranges are more common than others you don't have a way of predicting it . What you can do is have a gun that works well over a broad window of distance. Number four or number one back with either a flight control wad or with a full choke , work excellent at contact distance , at 15 feet, at 100 feet, and into about 300 feet-ish depending on the load . When I say work what I mean is they will have a consistent predictable pattern which can all be kept on the target and expect to hit the target and deliver adequate penetration and sufficient pads to reliably incapacitate the target .EDIT, by typing hastily, I misspoke here. Not All the pellets will be on target through the full range that I have stated here. Enough to work will depending on combination of load and choke. With PDX one , anything passed about 20 feet and your spread is far too large to keep one person . It is a dedicated very close range load with way too much penetration for a dedicated very close range load . It is less good than basic buckshot but it looks cool and it's expensive . As much as I rag on double lot buckshot I think it is actually more practical self-defense load since you can reasonably expect to keep all or most of those pellets on target through a broader window of potential distances .

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:57 pm 
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I apologize for several typographical and grammatical errors in the post above. I used voice dictation from my phone since I wasn't near my computer. if a word seems out of place it probably is .

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:40 pm 
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GF - Hope the post above doesn't get you disbarred for "not talkin' English good"... :lol:

300 feet with buck?!? Heard tell of 70 yards but 100 yards is amazing. I know Flitecontrol is awesome, but wow! Got to start loading #4 with those wads! ... Got to start loading. :(

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:52 pm 
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I probably need to correct that last post. I was trying to say that the #4 buck loads etc give a longer window where ALL pellets are on target, and then a longer window where ENOUGH. Thinking about patterning I've done, with a 12s3 wads and #4 B, somewhere around 80-100 feet is the range where I could expect a perfectly aimed center chest shot to keep ALL the pellets on target, no misses.

300 feet ish, with my loads are in the ENOUGH, but not the ALL.
at 300 feet, with a full choke and wad, my pattern put enough pellets on man sized target's torso area, not ALL pellets. So for sure I could hit a person at that range, but I couldn't guarantee NOT hitting the guy next to him. the pattern at that range is about double the width of an IPSC torso, if that makes sense.

There's a guy who does some kinda unsafe loads on youtube called BubbaRoundtree, and his tests are not very scientifically controlled, but you can get a pretty good feel for the relationship of how many pellets can be reliably expected to hit vitals at various ranges with different pellet size,count, wad, choke combos. Universally, the fewer the pellets, the worse the odds.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Gunfun knows his stuff, inside and out. I went with #4 buck after reading other stuff, but what he says is consistent with that.
tnoutdoors9 is the authoritative and final word for me on ammo testing. I came across his vids years ago for pistol.
5 minute vids/complete data/no BSing
Unforutnately he has retired, but the facts still remain....


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:57 pm 
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I would also suggest looking into brassfetcher.com . He Lotta good articles . Keep in mind most of the stuff is going off of standard velocity ammunition . So you have to adjust the numbers accordingly .

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I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

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