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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:09 am
Posts: 175
Location: Behind the liberal curtain.
I have never cleaned my Vepr 12 mags and had my first mag related failure, there was so much carbon and crud buildup inside that the follower jammed up. This was with a Molot 10 round magazine that had more than 1000 rounds cycled through it. Yes I know you should clean your mags every once in a while, I didn't. Learn from my mistake. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:11 am
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Ya, I can see the mags getting dirty, shotguns seem to have more residue due to the large caliber. The gas block sure builds up some nice buggers for sure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:38 pm 
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After you clean your mags don’t put any lube of any kind into them. Leave them dry. Putting anything in make them collect junk quicker.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:20 pm 
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+1 to oleg. Wiping down with a dryer sheet can also help if you are in an area where static makes fine dust want to stick to plastics.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:19 am 
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I was surprised to see how much crud, even unburnt flakes of powder, were in the SGM drum after even the first 25 rounds. After a couple hundred, there's a shocking amount of trash in there. We'd never know it, but it's clear plastic so you can see it easily. I've thought about drilling a 1/4" hole at the 6 o'clock position so the stuff can fall out on its own. I've seen the video on how to take the drum apart. It doesn't look fun.
I assume the same amount of debris is in the mags. Maybe a 1/4" hole on the back, bottom of the mags too?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:04 am 
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I'd start looking in a different direction.

Sometimes I see people whose actions seem to be opening prematurely. When they are shooting in dim light, you see a fireball out the ejection port too. I'm guessing those guys have guns tending toward overgas, and they are using super light mainsprings.

The other thing is shotgun shells are all fairly dirty, but brand and type make a huge difference. Weather can too. Having been reloading for a few years, it is notable how touchy some powders are about temperature. I know of one powder which sketches me out for a lot of purposes, because if you load toward the light or heavy end of the published loads with it, it tends not to burn fully on a consistent basis. It seems to want a magnum primer to be consistent. That powder is even more wonky when it's very cold out.

Comparing the bulk ammo brands I used to purchase, I liked the function and smell of the Federal bulk the best, but it was dirty. Winchester bulk was inconsistent, and it was apparent from observation and research, that it was made out of the dregs of whatevery they had left over, and varied in powder types, etc. Big shops have the capacity to safely blend powders in ways that folks like me would be fools to consider. Remington Gun Club, I think is the most consistent and good quality of the ~$20/100 tier common big brand bulk pack. I haven't messed with Herters, and have not shot enough Estate to form an opinion.

My suggestion before you hack up your mags would be to shoot near dusk with a video camera or phone set to high frame rate facing the ejection port. If you see burning powder, I think you want a heavier mainspring. If you are just getting a lot of unburnt powder and ashy trash, switching to better ammo makes more sense. Given that there is other similarly cheap ammo, why shoot the worse stuff?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Interesting. I'd for the discussion to continue in this direction!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:30 am 
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You get what you get, and you don't pitch a fit, Bob... ;)

Agree with Gunfun's assessment. Carbon in the mag will be graphite and graphene. Both excellent dry lubricants. The other junk may be a problem. Different loads can burn vastly different from one another. Test with a camera. Study the crud.

Do you have enlarged ports? More in number and small diameter is better than one large hole.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:56 am 
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GunFun wrote:
I'd start looking in a different direction.

Sometimes I see people whose actions seem to be opening prematurely. When they are shooting in dim light, you see a fireball out the ejection port too. I'm guessing those guys have guns tending toward overgas, and they are using super light mainsprings.

The other thing is shotgun shells are all fairly dirty, but brand and type make a huge difference. Weather can too. Having been reloading for a few years, it is notable how touchy some powders are about temperature. I know of one powder which sketches me out for a lot of purposes, because if you load toward the light or heavy end of the published loads with it, it tends not to burn fully on a consistent basis. It seems to want a magnum primer to be consistent. That powder is even more wonky when it's very cold out.

Comparing the bulk ammo brands I used to purchase, I liked the function and smell of the Federal bulk the best, but it was dirty. Winchester bulk was inconsistent, and it was apparent from observation and research, that it was made out of the dregs of whatevery they had left over, and varied in powder types, etc. Big shops have the capacity to safely blend powders in ways that folks like me would be fools to consider. Remington Gun Club, I think is the most consistent and good quality of the ~$20/100 tier common big brand bulk pack. I haven't messed with Herters, and have not shot enough Estate to form an opinion.

My suggestion before you hack up your mags would be to shoot near dusk with a video camera or phone set to high frame rate facing the ejection port. If you see burning powder, I think you want a heavier mainspring. If you are just getting a lot of unburnt powder and ashy trash, switching to better ammo makes more sense. Given that there is other similarly cheap ammo, why shoot the worse stuff?


Good stuff here.

Yes some ammo runs dirty as hell.

I made the mistake of letting my gun go too long without cleaning recently. Practice session, 3 gun match. Then earlier this week I did some function testing and used up my "practice pile". A hodgepodge of cheap, weak, leftover odds and ends from the past year.

Winchester bulk
Winchester white box
estate 2.75 dram
herters 3 dram
federal bulk
etc.

about 100 rounds

also ran some aguila 1250 fps
and some rio 1280 fps for practice, about 100 rounds

last night, before today's match, I went to clean the gas block.

It was hog-ass dirty. Clumps and chunks and gunked up crap that had to be scaled for 30 minutes.

Horrible.

Today I shot another match and ran AA 1300s, and then there were some after match shenanigans I let a bunch of buddy's shoot the gun, used some of the Aguila and some more AAs. Probably put about 200 rounds on it today.

Went to check the gas block just now, barely any fouling. Just a quick wipe inside with some fine steel wool and she's good to go.

AA's run clean clean clean. Its almost worth the extra $2.50 a box to avoid all the gunk. Then again, I feel like federal bulk and the rio and agauila is not bad at all if you take 5 minutes to clean it every couple hundred rounds. Those ammo's are my current favorites and are all $5.50 a box at Academy/Wal-Mart.

I never have issues with a lot of debris in my mags/drums. I think to get debris out of the drum the easy way is remove the 3 dummy rounds through the top, and then turn it upside down and shake any crap out or blow it with compressed air. No big deal.

Takedown and reassembly of the drum takes some patience. And swearing. And wear gloves. And make sure you don't over tighten the main takedown screw.

:D

-V

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Nephilim7 wrote:
Do you have enlarged ports?

That's a very personal question Phil.

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