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 Post subject: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:00 am
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What self defense loads are you guys using?


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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:30 pm 
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Location: Hotass, AZ
#4 Buckshot
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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:20 pm 
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Location: Great State of Pennsylvania
Buckshot

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:27 am 
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Location: Washington
Ho made #4 buck. 22 pellets at ~1375 FPS in a federal 12S3 shotcup. Rem STS style hulls. This translates to 22 potentially lethal wound channels with ideal penetration, and minimal wall penetration. Tight and even dispersion of pellets. With a full choke, pattern is about fist sized at the longest distance in my house. most pellets would be on a person at ~50 yards. Recoil is moderate. just a scosche hotter than the standard 9 pellet of 00 buck at 1325 field load.

If I were buying a commercial product, it would be this one:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... Dui-AG_RL7

It has a flite control type wad so it would have comparable spread out of a plain barrel or compensator with no choke. It has a few more pellets, and is a little slower per measured velocity, so recoil might be just a little more than my load.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Hornady makes excellent ammo. I'm gonna have to get me some of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:12 am 
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I guess I should have been more specific. I am looking for brands and loads that work well in the vepr for use in defending ones home. That linked round looks interesting I would like some other suggestions also. I have read suggestions on other forums but they were geared mostly to pump guns I would like to hear what the vepr guys suggest.


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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Some times you can find Federal flite control in #4 buck or #1 buck. Those are the other suggestions. You want #1 at 1325 fps or #4 at 1350 to 1400. Avoid "LE" "reduced recoil" and similar phrases.

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:07 am 
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Location: Arkansas, USA (NWA)
Agree with you fellers. 3.5 dram equivalent #4 buck in flight control wad. Think federel has best hulls. Nice smooth edges on hull nose. Great for feeding. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Location: Washington
"Best hulls" is an interesting question.

The fancy trap hulls made for picky reloaders are clearly the best made. They are way higher quality and rated to higher pressures than the disposable "high brass" garbage that the actual hot loads tend to come in. That shows you that even the poorest hulls are over built for a single use. Remember when the pressure specs were standardized, these things were made of waxed paper.

I think federal's standard field hulls are the best. For the high end trap hulls and/or reloading, I think you could make a very good case for the Federal Gold Medal or the Rem STS (also used on the "nitro" branded product lines). For me the choice between those is based on wad design. FGM have a brass head that is mid high. that doesn't add strength, but it does make sizing a requirement, and it does snag up while loading into stick mags. The plastic is tough. Having had a bag of several hundred, I noticed that some seem to be more brittle plastic than others. Might have been age, but I got a few splits at the crimps. STS are also brass head, with low brass that probably could get away without being sized. I do anyway, but it takes less force with a ring sizer. They load better, and the plastic is just really good quality. Plus they come in green, gold, and silver, so you can color code your loads. I use gold for #1 buck and green for #4.... On the whole, I think the STS is a better hull. IIRC it is also rated to slightly higher pressures. Basically, those two hulls can handle far more pressure than the single use hulls that magnum, buckshot, slug, and turkey loads come in.

Federal GMM is a straight wall hull, and STS tapers. So if you are planning on using a tapered wad, go with the STS. If you are using a straight wad, you could use either, but some combos might bulge or buckle. You just have to try a few to know if it will work.

The stiffer FGM might hold the tapered roll on a refined roll crimp a little better.

Unfortunately, none of the defensive or LE/MIL series are using the nice hulls. They are all using the feild hulls. I've notice that those camo colored Winchester military hulls with the blackened steel heads. have a cheaper and rougher feel than the standard Winchester commercial field loads of the same specs.

If I were designing the perfect factory load, it would probably be federal GMM with their flite control wad and 22 pellets of buffered #4, in their FGM hull rather than their disposable field hulls.

The Hornady hulls used with the Versatite (basically same thing as flite control) load I linked above have a quality feel, and are in the middle of the road. Probably hornady gets them made by someone like cheddite, but I haven't looked closely enough to determine that. They have a thick and moderately pliable plastic portion with ribs. They don't seem likely to be easily dinged up or deformed as some brands are. (Rem, nobel, S&B, Centurion, and similar- Win also has some waxy looking smooth field hulls which are a very brittle plastic. Others of theirs are good, but they are not as good for re-use because they melt the crimp closed. - a nice touch.)

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 Post subject: Re: Self Defense Loads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:43 pm 
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bonus. If you are looking for defensive loads for shotgun, most of the ones marketed for defense, are either neutered for recoil in pumps, or are 00b because group-think sells.

The really well made truly optimum loads tend to be branded as predator loads for coyote/cougar. If you think about it you will realize that those are very close to a person in body size, etc. So it should make a lot of sense. Right size of pellets in the right velocity, in the best quality wads for a good pattern. If anything, they err on too many pellets and therefore too much recoil, because they expect a 1 shot drop, and aren't concerned as much about rapid recovery.

Federal occasionally does a run of LE marked Flite control #4 buck, but look at the numbers. If it is under 1325 FPS, move along. Those pellets won't go deep enough. The most suitable federal load that I see regularly in stock on the internet is Federal LE branded flite control #1 buck at 1325 FPS, which is the perfect velocity for that pellet. 12 pellets is about right for #1 buck, and it will be a little more recoil than the 9 pellets of 00Buck at the same velocity. If you are concerned about cars, which cops should be, then this might be a better choice than the #4 for that application. For me, I choose #4 because it does everything about perfect for what I want, and gives me more than 3x as many potentially incapacitive wound channels in a more consistent pattern than 00 buck, and double what the #1 buck equivalent load would do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VTk_7884r8

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P.M. me if you want help:
modify or fix your gun

shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

http://www.youtube.com/user/armaggedonite


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