THE VEPR FORUM

Atterete Dominatum
It is currently Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:44 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:33 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Madison, Alabama
Sorry... the VEPR is spec'd. It's not to the tolerances we are accustomed to in US manufacturing and not the rigid and well-defined milspec, but they are spec'd. That means that there are parameters for their design and tolerances that dictate whether a gun is suitable for sale. These parameters form a baseline... some guns are better and some are worse; but they're all inside the design parameters. These VEPR's are not random rifles thrown out the door... I know you didn't say that, but I want to amplify they're not made in a garage by vodka soaked dolts. These are the same Russian QC wizards who do a pretty fair job of building spacecraft, missiles, helicopters, etc.

I'm disappointed that we have to tweak a magazine to the degree that you have to void a warranty... doesn't make a lot of sense. That's my opinion. I appreciate that you're intelligent and resourceful enouth to come-up with a hack to make the magazines better. That's a big credit to you. I know they're paying you to support a product and by God, this is America -- that's a good for you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:13 am 
Offline
Business Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:43 pm
Posts: 2999
Location: Yulee, Florida
It is time for a redesign. Mag needs more material along to sides to mimic the width of a factory mag through the portion that enters the magwell, so they will not hang up on the way in if they are not aligned perfectly. If they just did that I would get more. Until then, I'll just keep using the ones I have.

_________________
Image
DIRECT ALL WORK INQUIRIES TO...
evl@evlutionz.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:56 pm
Posts: 1005
Dodger wrote:
Sorry... the VEPR is spec'd. It's not to the tolerances we are accustomed to in US manufacturing and not the rigid and well-defined milspec, but they are spec'd. That means that there are parameters for their design and tolerances that dictate whether a gun is suitable for sale. These parameters form a baseline... some guns are better and some are worse; but they're all inside the design parameters. These VEPR's are not random rifles thrown out the door... I know you didn't say that, but I want to amplify they're not made in a garage by vodka soaked dolts. These are the same Russian QC wizards who do a pretty fair job of building spacecraft, missiles, helicopters, etc.

I'm disappointed that we have to tweak a magazine to the degree that you have to void a warranty... doesn't make a lot of sense. That's my opinion. I appreciate that you're intelligent and resourceful enouth to come-up with a hack to make the magazines better. That's a big credit to you. I know they're paying you to support a product and by God, this is America -- that's a good for you.


"Suitable for sale" is about as appropriate as you can sum up the QC on these things. To compare a small arm made mostly for recreation to air and space craft is, well.... laughable.

I'm not trying to be a dick, and to your point, yes they are nowhere near the train wreck that an older Saiga 12 or say a DDI 12 was.

But you can not get around the fact that their fitment and function from the factory varies WILDLY. Mainly in the mag well, the top cover rail, and also other areas. I had 2 fixed tube stock guns and went to fit an ALFA Picatinny gas tube rail to it. On one gun, it dropped right in to the rear sight block. In the other, I had to remove a good amount of material to make it drop in. One gun I got as a loaner with no mag. I went to insert a factory 5 rounder I had laying around, and when seated it got stuck so bad I had to beat it out with a rubber mallet.

They have not been formally adopted by any military. The number of Vepr 12s in the hands of police, military, and private security personnel is Infinitesimal compared to their main use: a firearm popular for recreation, fulfilling tactical Timmy home defense/Zombie slaughter fantasies, and gun gaming.

We have a name for The "spec" to which you are referring that these guns are QC'd too. Its called "comrade spec". I'm from Russia, and I handle a lot of Russian products. They are light years behind in terms of manufacturing, materials, and coatings. At least on the civilian side. These are just my observations from handling lots of these guns and products.

I'm ok with it. I like to tinker.

To your second point, some would say its crazy what we have to do to a lot of Vepr 12's to make them "cycle a wide range of ammo" like they are supposed to. It would certainly void their warranty, except, wait...they really don't freaking have one. :lol: :lol:

If you get a gun with problems, you're lucky if the importer or distributor will give you an exchange, considering you haven't gone wild with a dremmel to try to make it do your bidding.

But that's why we're here as a support community. Because we've been there done that. We know what works and what doesn't. and 99.9999999999% of the time when people come here for help, they get solid advice and directions that the common man can execute which almost always ends in a positive result.

People from across the world on Facebook, Instagram, and Youtube come to me very often with the same results.

In regards to the SGM mags, they work fine for most people. They sell like hot cakes, and for the average recreational shooter on the range, they fill their purpose perfectly. A little high capacity fun for a good price easily attainable to the masses.

For someone with a strict standard for fit and function like myself, I have brought together every element I could find for tuning these to be as close to factory mag function as possible, and added a few elements of my own. I tweak em' hard, and then dial them back down until they run perfectly.

That's why I make all my videos. I just want people to experience the same joy that I do.

And they do run perfectly. Come join me on the range, and I'll show you. ;)

-V

_________________
PLEASE EMAIL Vadim@DissidentArms.com

WWW.4RANGE.COM Use code "V4V5" FOR 5% OFF

"Harness the power of your Inner Russian"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 6:51 pm 
Offline
Business Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:43 pm
Posts: 2999
Location: Yulee, Florida
I'm correcting some of that wild variance right now. People seem to be of the impression that the V12s are "higher quality" than Saiga 12s, and they are in some ways, but not where it really matters. I can throw the exact same recipe at any previously unmodified Saiga 12 of any barrel length and make them run exactly the same ever single time. Not so with the V12. Some will run and some will run after corrective measures. Having said all of that, the SGM mags are far from perfect, they do have some potential, and they need a redesign.

If someone from SGM is reading this, I would happily donate some of my time to convey exactly what would make the mags far more user friendly. What I have in mind would only require minimal modification of the existing outer molds.

_________________
Image
DIRECT ALL WORK INQUIRIES TO...
evl@evlutionz.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:37 pm
Posts: 16
curious why you deleted your video on how to tune the SGM mags? Went back to finally tune my SGM magazine today and I seen you deleted it. Hoping its not because they told you to delete it or you wouldn't be sponsored by them anymore.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:56 pm
Posts: 1005
brandonboss wrote:
curious why you deleted your video on how to tune the SGM mags? Went back to finally tune my SGM magazine today and I seen you deleted it. Hoping its not because they told you to delete it or you wouldn't be sponsored by them anymore.


Of course not! SGM has been supportive of my mag tuning video since I told them about it last winter when I met with Kerry and Kevin.

There are a couple reasons I pulled it.

#1, even though I had good results with the methods I outlined in it, a few guys were getting bad results from over tuning. Even though this is easily correctible, by re-boiling the mags with nothing inside, this was happening more often than I liked, and was costing people range time and ammo. Also, one chap here on the forum had a bad experience when he took off too much material off his front lug, which while I advised to be very careful in doing so in the video, and also the fact that he was able to easily reverse that also by adding aluminum tape to the front of the mags, I have decided giving this recommendation may cause more harm and than good.

#2, by collaborating with Dissident Arms, and now that I am employed by them, we have worked out the kinks and are able to see positive results with all neccessary refinements to these methods on a large scale.

Unfortunately, YouTube has taken away the ability to add annotations to videos. That's right. No more.

Why? I don't know. So I was not able to correct the video, and instead decided to remove it for now.

I also removed my "how to build a big stick video" for the same reasons. Outdated. Better methods available.

At the end of the day, regardless of what I say, SGM will sell a ton of mags, and I am lucky to be supported by them and use their products.

As for the tuning, for the time bieng, it just makes sense to send your mags in to Dissident to be tuned/assembled. Mag tuning is available on our website. Soon we will offer a service where you can supply your own mags to be made into coupled high capacity sticks using our couplers, or you can of course buy them directly from us as pre made standard or high capacity units.

I truly believe that for the time/materials/testing that one would do to tune/assemble their own mags, the cost of the service /product from Dissident is a phenomenal value.

hope that makes sense!

-V

_________________
PLEASE EMAIL Vadim@DissidentArms.com

WWW.4RANGE.COM Use code "V4V5" FOR 5% OFF

"Harness the power of your Inner Russian"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:37 pm
Posts: 16
That makes sense. Thanks for the thorough explanation and response.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:17 am
Posts: 22
I dunno about you guys, but I bought 2 SGM 10rd mags and 1 of them has given me nothing but problems since day 1. The other seemed to work fine, but as of today I have lost my confidence in them.

So i'm out at the range today testing my trigger work I did yesterday to verify all is working well.

Putting some rounds down range and shooting some trap.

Well a little back history: 1 of the mags has always been a bit stiffer to load especially half way through you gotta push a bit harder to get the rounds in there as it felt almost like it had a spot it was dragging on internally. Also that same mag had the issue that when I inserted it into the mag well...it dropped the damn bolt on its own!

Now back to what happened...shot about 5 or 6 rounds through the shotgun from said problematic mag, and go for another shot and kaboom! shells, plastic and spring flying everywhere!

The mag had caused a failure to battery (bolt didn't make it all the way forward) and I had not noticed as i was making repeat shots like you normally do with a loaded mag...and 1 round failed to load all the way into the battery and the bolt had not locked. well pulled the trigger not knowing that and it blew the whole side out of that magazine.

No worries, i'm fine, and the vepr is fine. Good ol' "mother russia" as I call it (the vepr) is a tough som'bitch!

I did have to use a screwdriver to pry out the mangled brass and hull of the shotshell.

But after I cleared the pipe, I checked the rest of it and function of the bolt carrier and bolt..all was well. mag well was good. So I tossed the other SGM mag aside and stuck to my 3 molot mags and didn't have a single issue since. Every round fired and ejected, bolt locked up every single time. 100% function after.

Maybe I just got a bad mag with a burr or deformation inside it or something...I dunno, but I do know that I didn't like the mag dropping the bolt on me, and I didn't like how wobbly it fits in the mag well unlike the molot mags that fit perfect.


Image
Image
Image
Image

Thankfully that was only a 2 3/4" 3 dram birdshot round and not a 3" magnum 00 buck round. Could have been much worse!

Now I'm not trying to start a panic or sayin steer clear or anything like that...Just saying be careful. If you have any mags giving you any grief..don't use them until they are "tuned" or whatever to work flawlessly or you might have something like this happen to you which is scary considering that blew up very close to my face and hand.

I have since ordered 3 more molot 10rd mags at the semi inflated prices and probably will never use that other SGM 10rd mag I have again. They just don't fit the mag well properly and in my case it caused a catastrophic failure.

edit: I put the mag back together btw...the spring, follower, and 2 bottom plate pieces were about 10' infront of the firing line where I found them. I couldn't find the rest of the pieces of the side of the magazine that exploded.


Last edited by BoomStick on Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:02 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Orlando, FL
Well I'll be sticking to Csspecs and Molot mags then. :?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 am
Posts: 1703
Location: Great State of Pennsylvania
I personally never had any problems with SGM mags in my V12s.The OEM and Csspecs are definitely better quality. I would send the one mag back to SGM for replacement.

_________________
Guns are worthless if you can't feed them....


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group