THE VEPR FORUM

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:26 am 
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GunFun wrote:
Cool.

If you have calipers, pictures with them showing dimensions at the various deformed points help. Also pictures of the ruptured case, etc.

I take it that you haven't removed the cover yet.


I got the cover off, and freed the bolt carrier from the back of the action. The bolt had been forced out of it's cam groove in the carrier, and between the carrier and the bolt had the whole assembly jammed fully to the rear; a few taps with a small brass drift freed that up. The bolt carrier looks a little boogered-up (where the bolt cams within it), and possibly bent along the tube where the gas piston attaches. The receiver may yet be square, I'll start taking measurements in a bit. The cover is definitely tweaked (puckered-up where the bolt carrier rose as the bolt came out of it's cam groove), and no longer fits snuggly on the receiver. When reassembled, the action cycles, but it doesn't feel like it did before the mishap. I don't know that I would trust the existing bolt carrier after this. It seems as though normal recoil may at this time be sufficient to force the bolt out of it's cam groove in the receiver again. I don't have any hickory dowel rods handy to try to knock the slug out of the bore. I may leave that for the techs at Molot when the rifle goes in for warranty.

I don't have the ruptured case. It was in pieces no larger than the diameter of a pea, with the exception of the base.

It just makes me sick to my stomach that this happened to my new rifle. I've been yearning for a Vepr for a long time. It just makes me sick. Hopefully, the receiver is in fact still square and serviceable. Otherwise, replacement will require a new DROS.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:59 am 
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Thank you for sharing this information. Scary for sure.

I probably fall on the side of extra careful (though I don't bring a hard hat). I've been spooked ever since I read about the guy who was killed racking another round into his SKS and had an incident similar to what you think happened here. As already said, that it wasn't worse might be a testament to the rifle.


Last edited by chilort on Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:49 am 
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This is more of a possibility on the Vepr 54r than ANY other rifle that I am aware of.

The magazines feed the projectile to center of chamber, which is right where the primer is sitting. Most rifles feed bottom third of chamber, this lower feed is something of a safety to prevent this type of issue. The other issue is that the round is rimmed, and to support the base of the cartridge in the chamber the extractor pulls away partially and only retracts back onto the rim as the bolt is unlocking. Meaning that the extraction is less reliable.

When we start selling magazines for this rifle they are getting a half page warning in bright red about this. The factory manual has a little paragraph stating the clearing drill which would prevent this type of event, the clearing drill recommended by the NSSF and NRA would also prevent this type of event, what is trained in the military and by many firearms trainers is somewhat dangerous with all firearms and highly dangerous on the vepr-54r.

The Vepr-54r is different than most other rifles, clearing a dud MUST follow a different practice.. Doing the military clearing drill can get you blinded or killed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:01 am 
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I have lot of veprs and first I heard of this. I have 54r also. I don't think this is norm. I am hoping you get your rifle fixed


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:34 pm 
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PRegner wrote:
Proper training???

Checking for a clear chamber is not part of any immediate action drill that I know of, and I've got years of weapons-handling experience from the Marine Corps (including routine familiarization with Soviet platforms). The rifle went "click", I cycled the action and the weapon blew-up.

I've emailed Molot-USA (Walnut Creek, California) regarding warranty on this rifle. I don't expect to hear anything until Monday. If I don't hear back from them by the end of the day on Monday, I'll try FIME. Thanks for that tip.


I understand and I am highly versed in the firearms. I spent 6 years in the AF with combat experience. I have cleared many malfunctions on the M4 they way you did but this is a 7.62x54r RPK platform, using surplus ammunition and your at the range. I always take the extra precautions at the range because you have all the time in the world. And no I don't to all that wanna be operator BS you see some of these wannabes on YouTube doing. Hoping you get it fixed man! This should be a testament to the build quality of the Vepr. That's similar to taking a 30-06 to the face out of battery lol imagine the damage you would of had in an M1 garand


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:45 pm 
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I broke-out my Harbor Freight digital calipers (I know it's a Harbor Freight product, but it's all I have) this morning and started taking measurements. Along the top of the receiver the measurements were all 34mm, +/- 0.02mm. Along the bottom of the receiver, it consistently measured 34.15mm +/- 0.02mm. After careful inspection of the entire receiver, I'm thinking it's un-damaged. The puckering of the top cover initially led me to believe that the receiver may have been bulged, but after taking careful measurements, I'm changing my initial assessment. I inspected every bit of the receiver, paying special attention to the areas around the trunnion rivets, and around all areas where there are intended bends or openings, and could find no cracks or deformation.

It's looking like the bolt carrier and bolt took the brunt of the detonation (a 7.62x54r is one hell of a firecracker, indeed). There seems to be additional play in the slotted cylindrical channel in which the shaft of the bolt rides in the carrier. The bolt itself looks undamaged, save for the minor galling where the cam on the bolt jumped the channel in which it rides on the bolt carrier.

The top cover has a pucker in it where the bolt carrier pushed-up into it as the detonation slammed the bolt back and out of it's cam slot in the carrier, thus pushing the carrier up a few millimeters.

The folded rails on top of the receiver on which the bolt carrier rides seem to be undamaged, as well as the trigger group and other internal receiver parts.

I still intend to have this rifle evaluated by Molot (or whoever they designate for warranty work), just to be extra safe. I'm expecting that it will require nothing more than a new bolt carrier and top cover to restore the rifle to service.

I've always heard people speak of the toughness and durability of this family of rifles, and I'm now a believer. I've witnessed the results of two different AR style platforms firing out of battery, and the damage was far more catastrophic in both cases.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:17 pm 
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Csspecs wrote:
This is more of a possibility on the Vepr 54r than ANY other rifle that I am aware of.

The magazines feed the projectile to center of chamber, which is right where the primer is sitting. Most rifles feed bottom third of chamber, this lower feed is something of a safety to prevent this type of issue. The other issue is that the round is rimmed, and to support the base of the cartridge in the chamber the extractor pulls away partially and only retracts back onto the rim as the bolt is unlocking. Meaning that the extraction is less reliable.

When we start selling magazines for this rifle they are getting a half page warning in bright red about this. The factory manual has a little paragraph stating the clearing drill which would prevent this type of event, the clearing drill recommended by the NSSF and NRA would also prevent this type of event, what is trained in the military and by many firearms trainers is somewhat dangerous with all firearms and highly dangerous on the vepr-54r.

The Vepr-54r is different than most other rifles, clearing a dud MUST follow a different practice.. Doing the military clearing drill can get you blinded or killed.


I was thinking of exactly that, but was not confident to say "most" do X... Just every rifle I have observed feeds off line with the primer. Maybe Vepr 54rs need lever gun style projectiles...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:18 pm 
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Thanks for the update, PR gunner.

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P.M. me if you want help:
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shotguns, some gunsmithing, reloading, fabrication, knife making, etc.

I'm a firearms/NFA attorney in Wa. Let's combine business, pleasure, and stamps.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:24 am 
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What is the condition of the extractor?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:55 pm 
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this is how the SKS guy died.

my question is how did your cycling feel? the extractor should have pulled on the rim of the chambered round....it should have alerted you to a stuck round. You should not of been able to "freely" cycle another round onto the one already in battery.

regards


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