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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy REDUX
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:14 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Bloch Wall, Middle Earth
CitizenPete wrote:
Ibid fist size claim using 27", Kordon muzzle device, with #188 147gr Milsurp: (but we don't know if his fist size group is the size of a 20 pound mallet, or Mini-me fist)
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6679#p47601

...


I assure you my fist is of regular/average size (for a mortal).
the mini-me stayed at home playing with the mallet.

While I might be able to find that target to post later (or not) I've found this different one for now to keep the discussion going and to keep the curious happy..

here's a 100yard target shot with open sights, kneeling, using regular size hands (and fists)
10 shots out of the 27" vepr (bulgarian silver tip)
20 shots out of a 20" AR with WW VEX 1:8 barrel (55grain perfecta)
can you tell which hole is from which rifle?
how many fliers is it fair to dis-count?

https://postimg.org/image/z2gjzffgd/
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:08 pm
Posts: 23
I'm in!

Been having pretty great luck recently with my handload development. Since I live in Kalifornistan and I want to hunt with my 54R Vepr, I've been developing loads based on the Barnes .311 150 gr TSX copper solid. So far here is my best recipe:

PPU brass
CCI 200 primers
50.2 gr of H4895
3.000 OAL with a light crimp

I am getting an average velocity of 2890 fps and 1" 3-shot and 1.3" 5-shot groups.

This is as hot as I am going to go with the beginnings of a little pressure indication in the primers (mild cratering / flattening) but no issues with extraction or other case damage beyond usual Vepr brass abuse on ejection.

These were shot at 100 yards on a sunny day with little to no wind. Elevation of 2888 ft.

Rifle is a 20"

Scope is a Nikon Prostaff 5 3.5-14 x 40 (42?) running at full 14x magnification on a Midwest industries mount.
I've just ordered the custom turrets for the scope so I can dial yardage. Need to hit the 300 yd range so I can verify the ballistics, but pretty damn promising from my POV

Image
Image
Image


Last edited by three_pedals on Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:13 am
Posts: 1724
Location: Great State of Pennsylvania
Niiice!

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:08 pm
Posts: 23
Forgot to mention that this is, of course, on sandbags seated at a concrete bench.

Also, my Vepr has an ALG Enhanced trigger that I re-profiled myself to fit. I had a Tapco, but was getting the occasional double - not good (especially here in Kalifornistan) and for sure not good on a hunting rifle. The ALG is WAAAAY better than the Tapco and the OEM trigger. It didn't take too long to re-profile and I used files and sand paper so as not to introduce heat and risk ruining any temper in the parts. Fitting the safety roll pin was the only slightly "tricky" bit. Just watch the video on their site and it all makes sense.

I've also built a custom "featureless" stock with an adjustable cheek rest so I can get a good, repeatable cheek weld.


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:56 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 46
three_pedals wrote:
I'm in!

Been having pretty great luck recently with my handload development. Since I live in Kalifornistan and I want to hunt with my 54R Vepr, I've been developing loads based on the Barnes .311 150 gr TSX copper solid. So far here is my best recipe:

PPU brass
CCI 200 primers
50.2 gr of H4895
3.000 OAL with a light crimp

I am getting an average velocity of 2890 fps and 1" 3-shot and 1.3" 5-shot groups.

This is as hot as I am going to go with the beginnings of a little pressure indication in the primers (mild cratering / flattening) but no issues with extraction or other case damage beyond usual Vepr brass abuse on ejection.

These were shot at 100 yards on a sunny day with little to no wind. Elevation of 2888 ft.

Rifle is a 20"

Scope is a Nikon Prostaff 5 3.5-14 x 40 (42?) running at full 14x magnification on a Midwest industries mount.
I've just ordered the custom turrets for the scope so I can dial yardage. Need to hit the 300 yd range so I can verify the ballistics, but pretty damn promising from my POV

Image
Image
Image



Wow -- very respectable groups! Thank you very much for sharing these and your setup and load data!

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy REDUX
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 46
Rakoczy wrote:

here's a 100yard target shot with open sights, kneeling, using regular size hands (and fists)
10 shots out of the 27" vepr (bulgarian silver tip)
20 shots out of a 20" AR with WW VEX 1:8 barrel (55grain perfecta)
can you tell which hole is from which rifle?
how many fliers is it fair to dis-count?

https://postimg.org/image/z2gjzffgd/
Image


Confusing to me. Your obviously a good shot (target showing offhand / kneeling results). But the group spread and variability lends itself to the shooter as well as the rifle and the ammo. Hard to tell what the gun itself is capable of. Also confusing when mixed with .223, albeit some of the .30 cal is easy to make out.

Would you guess a 6" group?

Can you possibly please do a prone set or bench set from bags or biPod if and when you get a chance to take the shooter out of the results?

Thank you.

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Last edited by CitizenPete on Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 46
23" 54R w Adjustable gas set to 2
VersaPod biPod (receiver mounted)
SRV 3 port style brake
Dinzag Trigger
3-9x24 NPZ receiver side mounted FFP optic zoomed to 9
100 yard targets
CsSpec Magazines.






Wasn't going to post these tests because of variables, but WTH. (Can post more later) Sunny warm day -- very windy (5-10 mph?) mostly back to front and left to right. Used VersaPod BiPod off wooden bench. Wasn't able to really load up biPod as much as I would have liked since I had "sled" legs installed shooting from wood bench with no stop to push against.

Most groups were 5 shots, some 4, and 15 rounds test of the 7N1 "Sniper". I believe the Czech BXN 148 gr surplus group was one of the best groups at just under 3" (3 MOA). Most of the large groups are probably me not doing my job and possibly made worse by the wind that day. I still believe this is a potential 3 MOA gun even with my crappy shooting.

Note: Targets dots are 3/4" in diameter.


PPU 150gr brass (cold barrel) - note the cold barrel initial accuracy. - 4 1/2" or 2.5" w/o flyer (4.5 MOA)


PPU 150gr (hot barrel) - 3 3/8" horizontal string



S&B Green Box - 6" with low flyer - 2.5" w/o (2.5 MOA if discounting 1 flyer)




S&B Red Box (Match grade) - 4"



Czech BXN surplus 148gr. - 3"



Russian #188 silver tip surplus 147gr. - 5.5"



7N1 "Sniper" shot a 15 round group to check ave grouping and spread. - 5 1/4" spread. pretty well dispersed under target dot.



Russian "match" target round - 4 1/4" (target dot located 3.5" above highest impact point)



Hungarian 180gr Heavy Ball Surplus - 4 3/4" (4 rounds, not 5) (target dot located 3" above highest impact point.)

Sorry about the pics:
All my pics got blown away by the Photobucket bait and switch / ransom situation. $400 per year to have my pictures reappear. Screw photobucket.com

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Last edited by CitizenPete on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:02 am
Posts: 145
The best thing you can do for accuracy. Is tune the round my riffle shoots 2.5 inch groups at 200 yards with ppu ammo


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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm
Posts: 46
Interesting article posted on TTAG site regarding barrel length and accuracy tested. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/

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 Post subject: Re: Accuracy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:14 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Bloch Wall, Middle Earth
CitizenPete wrote:
Interesting article posted on TTAG site regarding barrel length and accuracy tested. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/


quote from article:
"This study does not aim to look at terminal effects, rates of drop and drift, combat effectiveness, ethical viewpoints, or legal/political issues. "

in other words they chose to ignore everything that is important... :lol:

one of the comments there puts it in proper perspective:

Another “experiment” ignoring the majority of the variables involved and not taking error into account. This data says very little, but when coupled with technical sounding language and graphs the average guy thinks he is looking at good scientific evidence.

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- Nikola Tesla.


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